Comments on Chapters 19 to 21 (Part 6- Transforming My Experience)
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
1. "Your work is a huge part of God's plan for your life, and God intends the Spirit to fill and engerize workplaces. Work that gets done in offices and elsewhere (ie- family, church, community groups, etc)- building up people , creating teams, managing the resources of creation- desperately requires the guidance and energy of the Spirit." page 219. Please comment on that statement.
Also- do you see "work" as a 9 to 5 reality; something you get paid for or do you view "work" as part of the fabric of living.
2. Have you ever thought of work as "spiritual"? Chapter 19 speaks about using our strengths. Do you know your strengths?
3. Can you think of circumstances/situations in life when you have helped other people use their gifts and talents thus helping then get more "in the flow". (see page 222)
4. I love the story at the beginning of chapter 20 where William Zinsser was frustrated with having to write obituaries. He lamented to his editor, "when am I going to get some decent story assignments?" The response-- "nothing you write will ever get read as carefully as what you are righting right now!" Indeed, it was a reminder that we are called to do our very best with what is in front of us. have you ever been in a situation like Zinsser where you spoke out in frustration but. . . what was needed was "your best"!
5. Chapter 20 summarizes the book "Habits of the Heart" by Robert Bellah. It's a classic. Bellah described 3 attitudes toward work:
a. treat it as job to pay bills and make money
b. approach as career
c. approach work as a calling.
where are you right now in your "attitude toward work"? Have you experienced change in attitude over the years? How so?
6. "Any work that has meaning, that can be a blessing to people and to the earth, can be a calling". Do you believe this to be true? If so, have you seen examples of people who demonstrate their work as a "calling" that could be a positive witness for others? Please share examples.
7. page 237-- "People are given more than they can handle all the time!. . .but. . .you will never be place in a situation that God can't handle!" The paragraph surrounding these quotes really grabbed my attention for I hear the cliche all the time- "God will never give me more than I can handle!"
I would just love to hear your reactions to this notion.
Saturday, August 14, 2010
Comments on Chapters 15-18 (Part 5- Deepening My Relationships)
Comments on Chapters 15-18 (Part 5- Deepening My Relationships)
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
1. Chapter 15 speaks about inviting Jesus into our personal "holy of holies"- the space in our soul where no one else has access. Speaking of prayer, can you relate to Ortberg's frustration at not being able to be fully present when praying (ie.- being so easily distracted). Comment on his prayer coach's advice, who said to John, "simply invite Jesus to come with you". An example of this is when John invited Jesus to run with him- his conversation with the Lord started to happen naturally.
2. Invitations are important. What to you think of invitations that begin with "negativity"? See Ortberg's comment on p. 177- "any piece of paper (DAS adds 'email also') that causes distress can be an invitation to prayer, a candidate to be spread out before the Lord." Note also that "mind wanderings" may actually be an invitation to prayer as well. Have you ever seen "mind wandering" as authentic prayer prelude?
3. God uses other people to form people. God is at work in your life through other people if you open up your eyes to take notice. Take the connectedness survey at the end of this chapter (page 193). are there any insights that emerged from taking this survey; ("aha moments" or moments of thanksgiving). I would suggest taking some time to pray about the answers/insights from that survey.
4. One of the great sins of the church is that we often have a hard time being honest about human sin. It's almost as if we have to be 'cleaned up' before we arrive for some reason. Chapter 17 reminds us of the need to be 'human' and that sometimes the change we need in life will involve genuine confession of our flaws. we are often afraid of that because we are afraid of looking bad.
My favorite part of this chapter was the reality that in scripture people were not put on pedestals. Even those we consider 'great' or 'pillars' were painted with flaws. Examples were shown of serious flaws where these pillars took great steps backward in their faith (consider peter denying Jesus or stepping out in the boat) which Ortberg described as the "J curve" (page 200). The step backward is sometimes necessary in order to eventually move forward in our faith. Please comment on the section "recognize the J curve".
Have you experience the J curve in your life?
5. Chapter 18 is a difficult chapter in many ways- or at least it is for me. In this chapter, Ortberg remarks that difficult people in our lives may actually reveal how God can use them to help us become the people God is calling us to be. We may see them as roadblocks, brain drains, depressing and scary, and people who fuel our anger-- but. . ..if we can open our eyes they may teach us a great deal! What do you think of the comments from Ortberg "if God wants to grow some quality in you, he may send you a person who tempts you to behave in just the opposite way. If you need to develop love, then some unlovable people will be your greatest challenge. If you need to develop hope, maintaining it in the face of discouragers will make it strong. If you want to grow in your ability to confront a hard-to-confront intimidateor will give you serious practice." Please comment.
Also- is it humbling to admit that "we personaly may be the difficult person he is sending to shape somebody else"?
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
1. Chapter 15 speaks about inviting Jesus into our personal "holy of holies"- the space in our soul where no one else has access. Speaking of prayer, can you relate to Ortberg's frustration at not being able to be fully present when praying (ie.- being so easily distracted). Comment on his prayer coach's advice, who said to John, "simply invite Jesus to come with you". An example of this is when John invited Jesus to run with him- his conversation with the Lord started to happen naturally.
2. Invitations are important. What to you think of invitations that begin with "negativity"? See Ortberg's comment on p. 177- "any piece of paper (DAS adds 'email also') that causes distress can be an invitation to prayer, a candidate to be spread out before the Lord." Note also that "mind wanderings" may actually be an invitation to prayer as well. Have you ever seen "mind wandering" as authentic prayer prelude?
3. God uses other people to form people. God is at work in your life through other people if you open up your eyes to take notice. Take the connectedness survey at the end of this chapter (page 193). are there any insights that emerged from taking this survey; ("aha moments" or moments of thanksgiving). I would suggest taking some time to pray about the answers/insights from that survey.
4. One of the great sins of the church is that we often have a hard time being honest about human sin. It's almost as if we have to be 'cleaned up' before we arrive for some reason. Chapter 17 reminds us of the need to be 'human' and that sometimes the change we need in life will involve genuine confession of our flaws. we are often afraid of that because we are afraid of looking bad.
My favorite part of this chapter was the reality that in scripture people were not put on pedestals. Even those we consider 'great' or 'pillars' were painted with flaws. Examples were shown of serious flaws where these pillars took great steps backward in their faith (consider peter denying Jesus or stepping out in the boat) which Ortberg described as the "J curve" (page 200). The step backward is sometimes necessary in order to eventually move forward in our faith. Please comment on the section "recognize the J curve".
Have you experience the J curve in your life?
5. Chapter 18 is a difficult chapter in many ways- or at least it is for me. In this chapter, Ortberg remarks that difficult people in our lives may actually reveal how God can use them to help us become the people God is calling us to be. We may see them as roadblocks, brain drains, depressing and scary, and people who fuel our anger-- but. . ..if we can open our eyes they may teach us a great deal! What do you think of the comments from Ortberg "if God wants to grow some quality in you, he may send you a person who tempts you to behave in just the opposite way. If you need to develop love, then some unlovable people will be your greatest challenge. If you need to develop hope, maintaining it in the face of discouragers will make it strong. If you want to grow in your ability to confront a hard-to-confront intimidateor will give you serious practice." Please comment.
Also- is it humbling to admit that "we personaly may be the difficult person he is sending to shape somebody else"?
Sunday, August 1, 2010
New Post Slated for Monday, August 2
I hope you've had time to catch up on some reading. I plan to post comments on the next section tommorow, Monday August 2. I was away this past week with limited access to email.
Pastor Dave
Pastor Dave
Monday, July 19, 2010
Comments on Chapters 11-14 from Pastor Dave
Comments on Chapters 11-14
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
1. Ortberg writes- "we pray more than we know" and then goes on to cite numerous examples of how this happens. He also quotes Richard Foster who says 'countless people have such a "stained glass image" of prayer that they fail to recognize what they are experiencing as prayer and so condemn themselves for not praying.'" (chapter 11)
Respond to these thoughts or other thoughts from chapter 11 that struck you.
(I can personally relate to the idea of praying a lot without the stereotypical "fold your hands, bow your head type praying". Much prayer that I do I become conscious of in retrospect- "yes, when I was thinking about "this or that" I was indeed praying.")
2. Is the image of the brook trout helpful for you-- see fly, want fly, eat fly (result- enslaved)? Ortberg says "temptation promises freedom but really makes us a slave. (chapter 12)
3. "If I walk down this road, where will it lead in the long run- toward or away from the me I want to be? Would this be a helfpul question for you to ask? Would it make a difference? Or is more helpful to ask- "if I do this will the 'idiot lights' on my spiritual dashboard go off (see p.141) (chapter 12)
4. Chapter 13 states "tell me your gifts and I'll tell you your sins" . It then lifts up the Enneagram tool which helps define 9 patterns in people which one will naturally describe us "better than others." Within each pattern is a strength but also a possible weakness within that pattern. The 9 patterns are:
Reformer, Server, Achiever, Artist, Thinker, Loyalist, Enthusiast, Commander, Peacemaker
As I read it, I was drawn to the description of achiever which seems to me how I am wired. I read the description of the blessings as well as the blind spots and it seems to fit so well. How about you? Which pattern seems to fit? Does the blind spots make sense as well?
5. When we find ourself out of the flow (chapter 14), Ortberg reminds us the the bible often uses the metaphor of "putting on clothing". At same time, he reminds us that we have to "take off" other things. In this chapter, one of the things he suggest we take off is "RAGS" which stands for
RESENTMENT
ANXIETY
GREED
SUPERIORITY
Obviously, we need to focus on taking off all those things. Which part of the RAGS acronymn is harder for you to "take off"?
6. Has anyone taken the MONVEE free online assesment that comes with the book? What did you learn from that experience?
NOTE- I know that some have felt uncomfortable posting. Feel free to comment anonymously if you wish or if you'd rather make comments to me via email, send them to pastordave@goserve.net. Realize that all feedback you provide helps teach me how to do things better in the future. I appreciate you being involved and reading book with me.
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
1. Ortberg writes- "we pray more than we know" and then goes on to cite numerous examples of how this happens. He also quotes Richard Foster who says 'countless people have such a "stained glass image" of prayer that they fail to recognize what they are experiencing as prayer and so condemn themselves for not praying.'" (chapter 11)
Respond to these thoughts or other thoughts from chapter 11 that struck you.
(I can personally relate to the idea of praying a lot without the stereotypical "fold your hands, bow your head type praying". Much prayer that I do I become conscious of in retrospect- "yes, when I was thinking about "this or that" I was indeed praying.")
2. Is the image of the brook trout helpful for you-- see fly, want fly, eat fly (result- enslaved)? Ortberg says "temptation promises freedom but really makes us a slave. (chapter 12)
3. "If I walk down this road, where will it lead in the long run- toward or away from the me I want to be? Would this be a helfpul question for you to ask? Would it make a difference? Or is more helpful to ask- "if I do this will the 'idiot lights' on my spiritual dashboard go off (see p.141) (chapter 12)
4. Chapter 13 states "tell me your gifts and I'll tell you your sins" . It then lifts up the Enneagram tool which helps define 9 patterns in people which one will naturally describe us "better than others." Within each pattern is a strength but also a possible weakness within that pattern. The 9 patterns are:
Reformer, Server, Achiever, Artist, Thinker, Loyalist, Enthusiast, Commander, Peacemaker
As I read it, I was drawn to the description of achiever which seems to me how I am wired. I read the description of the blessings as well as the blind spots and it seems to fit so well. How about you? Which pattern seems to fit? Does the blind spots make sense as well?
5. When we find ourself out of the flow (chapter 14), Ortberg reminds us the the bible often uses the metaphor of "putting on clothing". At same time, he reminds us that we have to "take off" other things. In this chapter, one of the things he suggest we take off is "RAGS" which stands for
RESENTMENT
ANXIETY
GREED
SUPERIORITY
Obviously, we need to focus on taking off all those things. Which part of the RAGS acronymn is harder for you to "take off"?
6. Has anyone taken the MONVEE free online assesment that comes with the book? What did you learn from that experience?
NOTE- I know that some have felt uncomfortable posting. Feel free to comment anonymously if you wish or if you'd rather make comments to me via email, send them to pastordave@goserve.net. Realize that all feedback you provide helps teach me how to do things better in the future. I appreciate you being involved and reading book with me.
Friday, July 9, 2010
Discussion Starters for Chapters 7-10
Chapter 7—LET YOUR DESIRES LEAD YOU TO GOD
1) Ortberg speaks about how God made us with desires—Material, Achievement, Relational, and physical desires and there is a definite pattern to your desires. Do you see a definite pattern to your desires? Share if willing.
Chapter 8—THINK GREAT THOUGHTS
2) I love Ortberg’s skunk under the house story. He puts it clearly- “you cannot get rid of the skunk odor without getting rid of the skunk.” It is a great metaphor for thinking about this chapter. He writes “our feelings never descend on us at random. As a general rule, our emotions flow out of our thoughts.” Agree or disagree with this statement?
3) Reflect and comment on the statement- “the way we live will inevitably be a reflection of the way we think. True change always begins in the mind.”
4) The spiritual life is about paying attention to our thoughts. Ortberg says we need to remember to “monitor the mind”- take any thought and ask, “what direction do those thoughts lead me in? Are they leading me toward life- toward God’s best version of me or in another direction?
Do you find that simple question helpful? Are there other questions you can think of that would help “monitor” your thoughts?
Do you believe its possible for you, personally, to adjust thoughts that are not leading to life as Ortberg suggests?
Chapter 9—FEED YOUR MIND WITH EXCELLENCE
5) How are you feeding your “mind” right now? From your experience, what has helped “feed your mind so that it flourishes”?
CHAPTER 10- NEVER WORRY ALONE
6) Ortberg reminds us that we are not meant to worry alone. Have you ever had someone who was a “non-anxious presence” for you? (in the past? Current?) How did that help you on your journey?
Looking ahead- next week I will post discussion starters for part 4 of the book (chapters 11-14)
Saturday, July 3, 2010
Discussion Starters for Chapters, 4, 5, and 6
Comments on Chapters 4, 5, and 6
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
*Keep up the good comments. Each of you is bringing out some great points along the way.
1. I really liked chapter 4. It began with the story of how King Saul tried to give the Shepherd, David, his armor. It absolutely was not the right fit. "The bible does not say you are God's appliance; it says you are his masterpiece. Appliances get mass-produced. Masterpieces get handcrafted." How often do you celebrate your uniqueness?
2. Spiritual growth is hand-crafted, not mass-produced. god does not do "one-size-fits-all". Comment on that statement.
Pastor Dave comments---This is a key reality that churches need to accept, embrace, honor, and lift up. what is also means is more work as we can't simply provide programs, preach sermons, teach in such a way that assumes all are the same. If anything, accepting this reality will be a major blessing and spark for the church's ministry.
3. Here is Ortberg's "alternate question" that he feels we should be asking more often----"What do you do that makes you feel fully alive?" (remember his comments that sustainable spiritual growth can't lat if it is built purely on 'should')
4. In the section starting on page 53 (called "What is My Pathway?), Gary Thomas lifts up several sacred pathways. He says that we will "often recognize our preferred pathways because we find ourselves being changed or making key decisions when we are doing a particcular activity." He lists these on page 55:
Naturalist
Ascetic
Traditionalist
Actvivist
Caregiver
Sensate
Enthusiast
Contemplative
Intellectual
Share with the group what you identify as your top 2. The follow up is simple-- are we spending enough time exploring these pathways?
5. Chapter 5 speaks about the importance of learning to surrender- not just once but as a continual experience. "Surrender means that I will seek to handle the problem facing me in a way that honors God. the options that look attractive to me-avoiding, evading, gossiping, blasting- I relinquish to God?"
Is that a helpful statement for you? In the complexities of life and the many situations we encounter would the simple question- "am I honoring God in this situation?" help you.
6. One who listens to music can't help but recall Carrie Underwood's song- "Jesus take the wheel". Although some Christians may not like the simple metaphor of Jesus in driver's seat, Underwood has captured the concept of "surrender" as has Ortberg. If not familiar, google the song. What do you think of the metaphor of "letting Jesus take the wheel"?
7. Chapter 6 is a brief chapter. It challenges us who believe that the harder you try at anything, the more success you will have. Ortberg title this chapter, "try softer". Share the aspects of this chapter that stood out for you.
(for me, I highlighted and underlined the following quote- 'rarely does anyone seek help for their pride problem. There are no Betty Ford Treatment Centers for the Insufferably Arrogant, but not because we don't need them'.)
8.Final Note--- Please share any insights/ comments from any of these chapters that you would like to mention. (There is a great supply of quotes and insights that any of us could spend time thinking about but I have not commented on)
Looking ahead-- next 10 days (7/4- 7/14), comments will be based on Part 3 (chapters 7-10)
from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
*Keep up the good comments. Each of you is bringing out some great points along the way.
1. I really liked chapter 4. It began with the story of how King Saul tried to give the Shepherd, David, his armor. It absolutely was not the right fit. "The bible does not say you are God's appliance; it says you are his masterpiece. Appliances get mass-produced. Masterpieces get handcrafted." How often do you celebrate your uniqueness? 2. Spiritual growth is hand-crafted, not mass-produced. god does not do "one-size-fits-all". Comment on that statement.
Pastor Dave comments---This is a key reality that churches need to accept, embrace, honor, and lift up. what is also means is more work as we can't simply provide programs, preach sermons, teach in such a way that assumes all are the same. If anything, accepting this reality will be a major blessing and spark for the church's ministry.
3. Here is Ortberg's "alternate question" that he feels we should be asking more often----"What do you do that makes you feel fully alive?" (remember his comments that sustainable spiritual growth can't lat if it is built purely on 'should')
4. In the section starting on page 53 (called "What is My Pathway?), Gary Thomas lifts up several sacred pathways. He says that we will "often recognize our preferred pathways because we find ourselves being changed or making key decisions when we are doing a particcular activity." He lists these on page 55:
Naturalist
Ascetic
Traditionalist
Actvivist
Caregiver
Sensate
Enthusiast
Contemplative
Intellectual
Share with the group what you identify as your top 2. The follow up is simple-- are we spending enough time exploring these pathways?
5. Chapter 5 speaks about the importance of learning to surrender- not just once but as a continual experience. "Surrender means that I will seek to handle the problem facing me in a way that honors God. the options that look attractive to me-avoiding, evading, gossiping, blasting- I relinquish to God?"
Is that a helpful statement for you? In the complexities of life and the many situations we encounter would the simple question- "am I honoring God in this situation?" help you.
6. One who listens to music can't help but recall Carrie Underwood's song- "Jesus take the wheel". Although some Christians may not like the simple metaphor of Jesus in driver's seat, Underwood has captured the concept of "surrender" as has Ortberg. If not familiar, google the song. What do you think of the metaphor of "letting Jesus take the wheel"?
7. Chapter 6 is a brief chapter. It challenges us who believe that the harder you try at anything, the more success you will have. Ortberg title this chapter, "try softer". Share the aspects of this chapter that stood out for you.
(for me, I highlighted and underlined the following quote- 'rarely does anyone seek help for their pride problem. There are no Betty Ford Treatment Centers for the Insufferably Arrogant, but not because we don't need them'.)
8.Final Note--- Please share any insights/ comments from any of these chapters that you would like to mention. (There is a great supply of quotes and insights that any of us could spend time thinking about but I have not commented on)
Looking ahead-- next 10 days (7/4- 7/14), comments will be based on Part 3 (chapters 7-10)
Monday, June 28, 2010
Discussion Starters for Chapter 3- "Discover the Flow"
Comments on Chapter 3-- "Discover the Flow"from John Ortberg's The Me I Want to Be: Becoming God's Best Version of You
Note---***Week of June 27, I will post comments on Part 2 of the book which is chapters 3-6 (pages 35--78)-- I will post separate comments for each chapter throughout the week. ***
I hope things are going well and you are enjoying the book. The cool thing about a book is that you need not agree with every comment. Often the comments that you find challenging present the best discussion starters.
Here are some comments that will hopefully spark some conversation today.
1) Ortberg writes- "My main job is to remain connected to God. When my primary focus is being present with him, everything else has a way of falling into place."- page 35
*I would like to get your reactions to this statement. Do you agree or disagree? I intellectually agree with that but I wonder if that is received as far too simplistic, idealistic, and perhaps even unhelpful for some? Does it produce a sense of guilt that if things are not going well, it's all our fault?
2) Ortberg speaks of a "bridge of grace" that helps close the gap between the current "me" and the sanctified me (the me we are meant to be) . H
3) Foundational Idea of Book--"The only way to become the person God made you to be is to live with the Spirit of God flowing through you like living water." -- page 39. Perhaps its because I'm gardening a lot and using a watering can, I often think of myself as that watering can. A watering can by itself is mere decoration. It has little value as decoration but takes on great potential when a supply of water fills its interior. It moves beyond potential when the filled can is tipped and what is inside is poured out. Life is about returning to God often to be filled up. I think of the images Ortberg points out and many others in scripture which speak of the unlimited wells, life giving water that continually flows, the roaring rivers, etc that come from God to fill up his people. How do you turn to God to be filled up? Are in the flow right now is your watering can a bit dry?
4) Two great soul searching quotes from Ortberg-- page 40
"When someone bumps into me, what spills out of me reveals what's inside of me."
"When we are in the flow of the Spirit, we become increasingly full of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodnes, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control."
Answer for yourself how full of the spirit you are at the moment? What fruits of the spirit appear to be underdeveloped in your life at the moment?
5) React to the following on page 42- " a trees job is not to try and bear fruit. The trees job is to abide near the river. . . .the fruit does not ripen overnite."
As we compare this quote to #4 it appears to remind us once more that our focus needs to be on putting ourselves in places to be nourished and fed by God. As one who has planted a garden this year for the first time, I see that watering is a daily discipline. I water over and over and over again and it takes a long time for the vegetables to reach maturity. . . .but, I keep at it just as God keeps working in our lives, trying to get through.
6) What are ways in which you "open yourself" to the spirits influence in your life?
What are ways in which you "close yourself off to the spirit's influence in your life?" (a.k.a "quenching the spirit"-- see page 44)
7) GPS image closes the chapter. Do you believe that God is ready to guide you home? Is the GPS in your life unplugged, plugged in and listening, in need of "u-turn", or plugged in once more and ready for new directions?
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)